Working mothers perpetuating myth of 'the useless man' to feel more feminine

Boons, we should be friends, I agree with you more often than not! [Nanoraptor]

I was raised in the 40s and 50s where women had one roll only; staying home and taking care of the kids. My poor mother was a swooner, lying on the couch fussing over everything while my father and siblings and I did all the chores. I was the youngest behind one brother and two sisters. When the sisters left home my brother and I did not share chores. I had my chores and if he decided to play a sport and practice after school his chores were my chores. He would never even consider doing any "woman's work". When I married my first, second and third husbands all had that same opinion and as hard as I tried to make them understand a relationship was sharing they weren't buying into it so I opted to work full time as a single parent. It was pure heaven on earth let me tell you. No matter how broke I was, how much I had to struggle to make ends meet by not having some loafing, whining guy around being discontent and irritating, I was free to spend all the time I could with my kids. I have a friend I've known for 37 years. I recently retired and moved to his home state and we live together. He is a terrific guy willing to step up and automatically take responsibilities in connection with the domestics. Our relationship is so much fun and we laugh and play a lot. There are occasional conflicts but our communication skills are in tact and we work it out. It is a bit of strain for both of us as we had been on our own for many years and integrating our needs and expectations was at times tricky.
I raise one boy and he knows how to do everything necessary to keep house, work and take care of his business. He doesn't think there is "woman's work" or "man's work" its all work as I taught him. He knows how to fix the minor plumbing, electric problems, and care for a yard, when to get an oil change and how to check all the fluids in the car. He can cook, sew, mend, wash and clean and likes knowing all these things that are a normal part of living.
I believe that it will take time for men to get that they are a part of the whole relationship and not just the main man doing what he wants at the end of the workday. Many men are on this page, caring for their children, doing domestic chores and completely integrated into their relationship so it's going quite well.
I can tell you this; I love all my ex-husbands, as they are truly wonderful men. I realized early in the game that they were products of ages of mindset and to expect them to step up to the plate right off the bat wasn't going to happen.

Ditto with my household. Just about the only stuff that's exclusively my husband's job is anything that requires really heavy lifting, because I've got a terrible back; other than that, we swap tasks and chores depending on who's more available for it. (Just about the only thing I do almost exclusively is the dishes, but that's mostly because he has no idea how to optimally load a dishwasher. XD) Same with our kids--we rotate which one has to clean the cat box, take out the garbage, etc. so nobody gets stuck with one of the ickier tasks all the time.

You've got that right! I married three of the most wonderful guys who thought their wives were an extension of their Mothers. E-gad, it was such a trial. I will confess that I managed to snap one of my husbands out of his mindset by dressing like his Mom. We were under his parent's thumb and it was making me crazy. We moved away from them and that made it better, but domestic chores and taking care of baby were not his forte. He expected me to help him with his business, work full time, do all the domestics and take care of the baby. The sad part was he didn't have obligations other than working and playing and soon enough he was out looking for female companionship because the one he had was always swamped with work.

oh yeah what about women who marry a rich man and do nothing at home? or women who simply don't do anything at home?

LOL, right, because there are no female architects or road workers. Are you from Saudi Arabia with that mentality? LMAO!

They need to quit minimizing the accomplishments just so they can feel better.

I don't believe the article was about minimizing male "accomplishments" anywhere but in their households. Why even bring architecture and highway systems into it, when no one is talking about anything outside the home?

In our house there was no such thing as the wife's/husband's chores.

In my home there is no such things as woman's work... it is all shared... excepts for the so-called men's work when it comes to things like yard work and fixing things around the house.

1) I was talking in terms of invention re architecture and highway systems

2)Splitting hairs over location of the battle(home or work) is a cop out. The fact remains, that women have come a long way in society, and in many cases(divorce)have the upper hand.

Men wont be held responsible for any remaining lack of self-recognition, female insecurity, or penis envy. Change your own attitudes to change your lives. Blind complaints arent warranted or welcome. Quit @!$%#ing at males and take responsibility. The men certainly wont be taking up self flagellation anytime soon, to satisfy you. 15 years of the motto, "men are dogs" was misguided, and weve had it! The man hater belongs firmly in the dark ages or at the very least, the late 70s.

the label 'man-hater' has a history, jbird....... go look it up.

men however, remain responsible for their behavior and the outcome is and will remain destructive to women untiil men take responsibility for that! The DV shelters abound, the perpetrators remain diverse throughout the system and society. women continue to be thrust into poverty after the divorce, only the headliners get attention with thier big ole court settlements and awards......... the average woman is struggling, seriously struggling, and given the economy will loose great amounts of ground in the decades to come.

you have sisters? think about it.

freebirdreaming

what about women who abuse their husbands? what about DV shelters for men?

2)Splitting hairs over location of the battle(home or work) is a cop out.

Not when the article that is being discussed is specifically about chores in the home, and ONLY about chores in the home.

You were looking for some excuse to rail about/at women, and not finding enough to fuel your anger in the article, you simply made a point to go off-topic in order to set yourself up so you could do some more complaining. It's very obvious.

In response to freebirdreaming, I'd just like to point out that statistics show men are more impacted by the current recession than women, since their jobs are more likely to be shut down (i.e., the government can't just fire teachers and other female-dominated positions).

Furthermore, while I don't have anything to cite for proof, I'd like to mention that some studies have shown women may be just as violent toward their male counterparts as the inverse. In general, though, women tend to turn the situation in their favor by calling the police, knowing the police won't believe the man was being abused. So in those cases, the women get away scott-free, and if a man does try to defend himself the situation only gets worse. We don't have proof of this yet because no one wants to believe women can be just as hateful and destructive as men. They're all "loving" and "nurturing" and the world would have no wars, famine, etc., if women controlled it. Have you seen how hateful women are toward each other? The cat fights, the clawing, the hair-pulling... but yes, that's men's fault too because we somehow put our brutish ogre behaviors onto women and turned them evil. Please.

Oh and as for divorce... women always win in that case. They always get the children, the house, and alimony. Virtually never does it occur the other way.

Oh and as for divorce... women always win in that case. They always get the children, the house, and alimony. Virtually never does it occur the other way.

LOL no. Much of the time it does work that way, I'll grant you that, but I've known plenty of women who have lost the house/apartment, and as for alimony--does that even EXIST anymore? Given how impossible it often is to extract child support, alimony would just be a headache and a half.

True enough, my own mother can't get child support from my father (let alone alimony, he's not loaded) as he left the state. But it occurs 99% of the time in the woman's favor.

it does not occur 99% of the time......... go do your homework.

it occurs that way for the 1% who live larger then even you can imagine....... those women can afford good attorney's, the women I speak of, the average woman can not.

women who are battered and defend themselves are arrested along with the abusive partner........ give me a break on the whole violent women thing. they exist, the majority in same sex relationships. try again with that 'men fair worse in bad economy' thing. Women fair worse in any economy. again, except for those in the upper brackets. and that is a small minority compared to the wommen living in poverty with their children because DAD left and she is fighting for everything the kids need.

Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually i

http://www.abanet.org/domviol/statistics.html

84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.

Most perpetrators of sexual violence are men. Among acts of sexual violence committed against women since the age of 18, 100% of rapes, 92% of physical assaults, and 97% of stalking acts were perpetrated by men. Sexual violence against men is also mainly male violence: 70% of rapes, 86% of physical assaults, and 65% of stalking acts were perpetrated by men.

Ok, I can truthfully say that all three of my husbands were dedicate to their work. When divorce came into the picture either by one husband's infidelity, one giving himself over to God and one with a truly scary bi-polar problem I left everything but the children behind. It saved me a trip to Goodwill (just joking). Child support was a very small contribution and I never pulled any crap when visitation was in order. I am not a male basher in anyway and belief both males and females can be spoiled rotten and hard to live with. Life is life and stuff happens. Good people don't resent, they move on and never talk smack about their ex-whatever around their children and others. If you want a rant, talk to the wall it won't talk back nor tell your secret. I will add this; however, all three husbands had a habit of abuse. Since I was raised with a lot of abuse it took me a while to figure out what was ok and what was not. I know my ex-husbands did the best they could with the upbringing they had.

it doesn't take one of each............. just a partnership. a partnership.

Um. What? It doesn't take one of each? Last I checked, you needed a sperm and an egg to procreate, no matter how you slice it. If two women want a baby together they still have to get sperm from a man. It takes one of each.

just a good freezer:)it comes in a syringe now :)

Thanks Tyler for dealing with the latest troll.....

We missed you while you were gone, Tyler!!

What does this have to do with the article? You forgot to mention the husband's responsibilities:

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her " Ephesians 5:25

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them. " Col 3:19

Why does religion have to be part of every discussion?

LVMom, I seem to recall looking at the Ephesians passage in co-ed Bible studies in college. We came to the consensus that the charges to the men in those passages entailed far greater responsibility on the part of the man than on the woman. But you're right, this isn't the forum for such a discussion.

I almost miss having husband to gripe about.

I kid. [sheesh]

Bull Sheet, what's the deal? Do you hate women that work? Does that automatically make them feminazis and femiwhores? What is wrong with actually trying to equalize particular roles?

I will concede that life will not be identical ever for men and women. That is biology. We were made different. Nobody that I know of will ever dispute that fact. I believe that there should be a definite balance. Not every woman wants to be a homemaker or even get married and have kids. I don't see a big problem with because for every one of those women, there are plenty out there that do want to get married and have a child or two or 7 or 8... You get my drift as far as that concerns.

Some women do want to be homemakers still with that as their only career. All the more power to them imo. I would love to be a stay at home mom again, but only if I had another child. (Not ready for that yet...) At this moment, I would hate it because my son is in school. I would get terribly bored. I enjoy my job, but I enjoy being a mom too.

I am lucky in regards that my husband will help. Yeah, I have to specifically ask him what I want done if there is something in particular, but I have to remember that he is not a psychic yet. LOL I am not either. That is just something that I have to deal with. He may not notice a lot of things, but he does see the dirty dishes and the dirty laundry.

bull sheet comments lol.

true, Jason

Men have been programmed to be the superior beings in a relationship. In my generation men told their women what to do, wear, how to talk, when and when not to laugh, etc and so forth. Did they like this roll? Did they feel adequate to rule another person's life? It was a heck of a responsibility after all. I would never bash women or men for being a product of their environment. I think we have all come a long way in evolving into pretty cool humans willing to pitch in and help each other. My biggest complaint about the man/woman thing is when they separate it is often a hate match and bash match to make sure one or the other is right or wrong. This really stinks because you love someone and the only way you can walk away from a bad situation is to hate? Why not walk away because it is time to move on? I know I have said that it is easier to love someone who has given you a lot of grief if they aren't in your face any longer and I stand by that. I can't imagine going around being jealous, hateful, or holding a grudge because something went awry in a relationship.

I'm the one who had the 34 year career. Whenever my husband wasn't working, even when he was back in school getting his Master's, he insisted on doing everything around the house... except cat duties.

When we were both working, we always split the chores, as we do now that we're both retired. He does almost all the shopping and cooking, keeps the kitchen clean and does the floors (all tile). I clean up after he cooks, do the dusting, bathrooms and all the other rooms, and the bill paying. Whomever is last out of bed in the morning makes the bed. He does most of the outside work, except I mostly check the pool and keep it clean/chlorinated (because I use it the most) - he'll clean the filter when it needs it. We both do laundry when it needs doing, and we both fold clothes, load and unload the dishwasher.

Oh, and I still do cat duty.

I'll never understand either party not chipping in and doing their share, especially if one is not employed, regardless of gender.

I'm retired, my wife has one last year to go.

I do the cooking (shopping) and the laundry (ironing). She does the vacuuming, because my back goes out in about thirty seconds if I try.

We never discussed these arrangements. They happened automatically.

article talks about a 'woman's guilt' about working........ if they have children. this guilt isn't arrived at on their own. society, just read through this discussion, feeds that guilt.

that is the study I am interested.

Whomever is last out of bed in the morning makes the bed.

You make the bed everyday? I only make them about once a week when I'm changing the sheets and pillowcases.

Whoever sees the cat puke first has to clean it up, yet how come all I see is a paper towel sitting on top of it? Of couse this part came from the kids because I was a single mom. The principal is the same with any of those little chores, like using the last of the toilet paper. Ah, life skills, aren't they divine.

Whoever sees the cat puke first has to clean it up, yet how come all I see is a paper towel sitting on top of it?

LOL This cracks me up. My DH won't deal with cat puke or furballs. He drapes paper towels and tissues over the evidence, and sometimes lets me know that one of the cats has left me a "present".

That's what the kids called it, too. My boy is a man now and still doesn't do kitty litter but he really wants a cat. What a hard life choice.

I live alone and am out of toilet paper. HEP!!! Well, Meijer's still open. Sigh.

Code I hope your taking precautions. If the word gets out your marriage is in danger. Too many woman want a man like you!

Nahh.. I'm old and used up.

If I could just swing a vacation. This coming year, I promise myself. Me and my son at least.. London. Yeah, that works. Wife hates rain, but who doesn't fancy London!? That's gotta be six layers of thick right there!

all the women I know don't have a choice, they have to work.

There is certainly nothing wrong with your thinking and I have done just what you want to do. However, as much as I was content to do this now that I have a man who is my partner and friend I am in total bliss. We share everything practically. It's fun to have someone in the kitchen helping prepare a meal. It is wonderful knowing your partner will cook for themselves when you don't want to eat what they are eating. I believe this is all I really wanted from my marriages in that if the one you love is hanging with you no one feels neglected. Sometimes when one person does most of the domestic chores the other feels like they are not getting enough attention. It could be the man or the woman feeling this way so it is best to just jump right in and share. I've never gotten a guy to clean the kitty litter, though.

have a HARD time taking feminists' side on anything, and this is definitely one of thse times. Forget that. Call me old fashioned, but I cant WAIT to become a career woman and marry a man I can cook and clean for. Dont judge me, but thats what I want to do. Im not saying I want to slave for any man, but the thought of coming home and making sure my husband has a hot meal on the table just sounds right to me.

You do realize that just WANTING a career would put you in the realm of "feminist" to some people? That "old fashioned" would be seen, by many, as staying home and staying pregnant, and taking care of the house and the husband and the kids? The very idea that you want a career was once a feministic attribute. You may not be as far off the "feminist" idea as you think.

Perhaps you should think about the "feminists" who came before that have helped to make it more acceptable for you to become a "career woman". ;0)

Yea, no thanks. Im more than for women being able to work when they so choose, but now it seems like things have shifted from men telling women that they cant work to women trying to make housewives feel bad for not working. I thought the entire movement was about choice.

Personally, I dont think gender-bashing is appropriate for either side. Men portraying women as only good for cooking, cleaning, and birthing is just as wrong as women portraying men as lazy, useless, shiftless do-nothings. Like it or not, every society has traditional gender "roles". I believe that we should all have a choice in whether or not we choose to subscribe to those roles but we cant bash anyone for making that choice...

I believe that we should all have a choice in whether or not we choose to subscribe to those roles

Sounds like a bit of feminism to me. Just not the absurd fringe of feminism that most people like to attribute to it.

Let me tell you this, in the early 60's when women were fighting for their rights I was called "the original liberated woman", which was a crock. The reason I was named this is that I was into sharing the rolls. I liked washing the car, mowing the lawn, changing the oil, and doing a bit of plumbing and all that. I didn't see that as a "mans" roll only. It was harder in those days to get a man to jump into the laundry/dish doing mode, but as long as that wasn't all I was doing I did ok.
I don't know what possessed us to burn our bras and refuse to wear one because the men seemed to like that all too much, but that's what we did. We were clumsy and inexperienced, but we were determined. We did not bash men, but had to be very cautious around them.

the point is that one gets to decide for themselves what they want to do........ you get to choose, you don't have to be boxed into something your not interested.

choice.

Being able to choose (as long as you can afford the choice...) is the best part.